Is There A God? An atheist perspective.

In this episode, the Bald Bros discuss the idea of God from an atheists perspective. The discussion centers around the arguments made by Bertrand Russell, a famous atheist that wrote an essay entitled "Why I Am Not A Christian". In this episode we discuss Bertrand's first two arguments of why he does not believe in God. The first argument is that of the First Cause and the second argument is that of Divine Design. 

Please join us in our discussions by submitting your questions or comments to cirquedusoul444@gmail.com. 

Transcript

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Yeah, that's mind, body, soul. We connected with the globe. Yeah, that's mind, body, soul took some discipline, repetition and some self-control. We connected with the globe. Said that's mind, body, soul. Whoa. Yeah. That's mind, body, soul. Hey. Yeah. That's Mind, body, soul took some discipline, repetition, and some self control. Welcome to Cirque to Soul, the only uncut. Unedited podcast that is dedicated to helping you to find spiritual peace in your life. Kim, this is the second episode in our series of Is There a God? Hey, every, how Is, how's everybody doing today? Had a great week. Last week, um, last episode, we talked about the belief in God. We focused on what does it mean to be an agnostic. We started off by playing a video from Neil Degas Tyson, who by the way, is a very, very famous, smart person. But this week we will explore what it means to be an atheist, and towards the end of this section, we will delve deeper into the differences between Western beliefs and Eastern beliefs that will be fun and enlightening. So to start, the first question is, what does it mean to be an atheist? Okay. The definition of atheism. It's not an affirmative belief that there is no God nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are Gods atheism and agnostic distinct views regarding the existence of a God or Gods, but there are not mutually exclusive atheism is a disbelief in or denial of the existence of a God of Gods. Agnosticism is the view that the existence of a God or gods is not knowable. A person can be both an atheist and agnostic, meaning they don't believe in any God or gods, and also believe that it's impossible to know definitively if one exists. Okay, that's a great introduction. Uh, you know what? As a starting point. Let's start by reading something from a famous atheist. You know, much like we did last week reading something from a famous agnostic, let's do that for an atheist. Mm-hmm. There was this guy by the name of Beran Russell, who was an avowed atheist. Now Russell, he was a British philosopher, a logician, a mathemat mathematician, and a public intellectual. He's another smart guy. He had influence on mathematics logic. He set theory and various areas of analytic philosophy. Now, he had four things, well, five or six things that, uh, he believed in that, that drove his idea of being an atheist. The first one was he thought that there was a lack of evidence, a lack of evidence of a God. He said this. Stemmed from his inability to find any evidence for the existence of God, as he was deeply concerned with the question of God's existence from a young age. So he had started studying this at a young age. Mm-hmm. He also wrote this thing called, why I Am Not a Christian. And in this essay he explicitly disclaims belief in God and immortality. And he laid out four reasons. Now we're gonna get to that part a little bit later, and that's why our discussion is gonna center on this, uh, essay of why I'm not a Christian. Mm-hmm. Now, he also had criticisms of traditional arguments. He challenged the, uh, I guess cosmological argument and other arguments for God's existence, just arguing that they were not logically sound. And then the next thing he said, there's the burden of proof. He emphasized that the burden of proof rested on those that were making the claims about God's existence. And in his opinion, he found that that available evidence, it was insufficient to support the idea that there was a God. Two more here, humanism. Now he was a strong advocate for humanism. He believed that humans should focus on their own lives and destiny. Without relying on religious or supernatural explanations. And the last thing he said was that fear was the basis of religion. That's a strong one. He believed that religion is often rooted in fear of the unknown, fear of death, uh, desire for security. And he saw all of these as negative influences. Now that's, that's just a summarization of what, what we're trying, so. What do you have to say about that? Okay. Yeah. Okay. He made some good points and things we've often thought about too. Uh, so it seems that his whole argument is based on the idea that you can't prove the existence of God. I mean, he, he doesn't believe in the idea of faith. Correct. Uh, now he wrote that essay on why he was not a Christian, and again, in that essay he laid out. Five arguments a few minutes ago. I told you we were gonna talk about these arguments and we're gonna have a, a brief discussion on these five arguments. Mm-hmm. Uh, now I don't know if we'll get through all of these a today, but we'll see where it goes. Okay? Mm-hmm. Okay. So let's go through these far. The first one, the first argument, and he believed that, um, it's maintained that everything that we see in this world has a cause. So it's like saying, you know. You and I are here because of mom and dad, right? So they were the cause of us being here. Mm-hmm. And if you keep going back further and further, he believes that everything has to have a cause. So if you keep going back further and further, you come to a first cause. And that first cause we give to the name of God. Now if everything must have a cause, then God's God must have a cause also. You know, there's no reason. The world could not have come into being without a cause. Or on the other hand, if there is any reason, why should that have always existed? Mm-hmm. There's no reason to suppose that the world had a beginning at all, uh, and that the idea that things must have a beginning, he says, is really due to our small thinking or imagination. And when he says that, he's saying, you know, it's very simple minded to think that everything is a first cause and that that's because. That's why we're here today. Right? So what do you think about that? Yeah, you know what, I've often thought about that. Um, and I guess my mind cannot comprehend even a beginning. I, I just don't, you know, there has to be a beginning, but I can't even comprehend how that beginning would begin. How, what, how did God exist? You know? I mean, right. I just can't, I just can't comprehend that. So I try not even to think about it'cause it just blows my mind. Uh, but there has to, it, it has to be a beginning. I mean, I just don't understand how I could not, you know. Yeah. You know, I think that that's, this is a hard argument because I don't think we'll ever know. Right. The whole idea that it was just God in the beginning. And then everything was, uh, created by God. So this happened, and then this created something. This happened and created something, but everything started with God. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's, I guess, where we get into the faith thing. Uh, yeah. I, you know, if we talked about this, well, the, the thing is we're never gonna know. Right? And his argument that, There is a first cause and if God is the first cause, then who caused God to come into existence? Exactly right. Was there a bigger God or was there something else? Yeah. And this is where he's saying, our thinking is so small, we'll never know. Yeah, exactly. I I, I totally agree with that because my mind just can't comprehend it. I, I, I just can't. Could be. There has to be, in my mind, there has to be a beginning, even if it was from a little bitty. Micro sale. How did that micro sale get there? You know? So you saying how did that micro sale become God? Yes. I mean, it's gotta be, in my opinion, there just has to be some kind of beginning. But like you said, we just can't comprehend it. We'll never know. Right. And it, but it's worth talking about. I mean, we can open up and like he says, our thinking is so small. Why do we think that it has to be a God that caused the beginning? Why couldn't it be something else? And I don't know what that something else is. It's just the fact that it's God and he's saying it could be anything else. We we're so simple minded. That, that's all we think it is. Well, we've been taught to believe that, you know, since, you know, since we were little. That's God is God. You know? That's what we've been taught to believe and we can't imagine anything else. But it's like what he's saying is it could be something else. We just never thought about it, you know? Well, let me ask this question,'cause this is something I've thought about often. Mm-hmm. We've been taught to think this way, but how did we get to the point that we were thinking this way? How did we get to the point to thinking that, it was a God? Yeah. How did we get to that point? Oh boy. Yeah. You know, I, I, yeah. See those are some good questions. You know, those are some good questions because we were taught to believe that there's God, and until you really start questioning things. You don't really care. You just know that there's God and that's it. It's until you start evolving and start questioning things, then you go back to that cause. Right. What caused it? What caused cause? Cause, okay. And then you, you keep going back and then we just, I don't know. Right. We just don't know. Well, do you believe if we were like Buddha and we were centered on ourselves and trying to connect, do you think we'd get an answer? Or is it just a connection? I think, uh, yeah, you know what? I think if you get to that level, I think you, uh, probably, oh God, it's hard to say because we, we are just not there. But you would like to think that Jesus knew. Because it said in the Bible, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. I would like to think that, uh, Christ, let's put that way Christ knew, and Buddha and Bob, g and Krishna and all, I, I would like to think that, uh, once they got to the higher level that they, they know, and they even both Boo and Jesus both said, how can I explain this to you where you can't even understand the simple things that I'm telling you? So they wouldn't, they didn't even try to explain it to'em because we are struggling with the simple things that they were telling us. But, that's so kind of telling, I mean, they're saying the simple things. Yeah. Well, what's, what's the difficult things? Did they get to Yeah. A higher level that they understood the difficult things and, you know, yeah. They looked at us as simple. Yeah. I, I think they, you know, even things as if like evolving, I think they try to explain that to us and. A lot of times we just don't even get that part, which is simple for them. It's simple. And, uh, so if, if we, if they feel like that's simple and we can't even comprehend that, how can they explain to us,, the upper, upper, upper, higher level evolution? There's no way we can understand it. I remember there was a book called, um. Something with lousy, I can't pronounce his name, but I think you know what I'm talking about. Lao or whatever. Yeah. And in his book, he said how frustrating it must have been for Jesus to, to talk about these things and they still couldn't comprehend it. Right. How frustrating it must have been to him. So. Uh, I think we're on a, also in that book conversations with God, it said we're still at the kindergarten level. Right. You know, we're still at the kindergarten level. So, um, to them it's the simple things and it's hard if it's hard for us to even believe, understand the simple things. Then they have, they even try to explain, the top, top evolutionary phase of living. Right. Okay, so let's get back to the topic. Of mm-hmm. You know what, uh, Tron says? Mm-hmm. Uh, and his thing was the first cause argument. Mm-hmm. If we don't understand are, we are too simple to understand the first cause argument are,, there is no first cause and he doesn't believe in it. I, I wonder what, what's our future like as humans? If we can't understand the simple things. Yeah. There's a lot of evolution that has to happen within us. To be able to get to the point that, uh, that, uh, Babaji or, or Jesus or Buddha was at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh,, I think, uh, we, we just have to, I think we can't look too far ahead because, they always said,, live day by day in this moment by moment and to just do our best each moment if we, if we really worry about, uh, trying to get to that upper level. We're probably just missing out on the everyday evolution, so I don't think we can comprehend it from where we're at now. I don't think so. I can't speak for everybody else, but I don't think we can comprehend it from where we are now. So we just try to do our best each day. Well, I don't think we can really worry about, uh uh, I don't think we can worry about. The cause of how it all started, Uhhuh, I just don't think we can. Okay. Well, you know what? When I hear things, it makes me ask more questions. If we can't understand it or it's too smart, we're trying to live every day, then how do we progress? How do we progress if we have to, if we truly believe that there is a God? And even amongst this argument that, uh, patron makes that, this first cause and it has to be something else. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The basis of all of this has to be faith. Yeah. I mean, it's just faith. Right, right, right. Um, because we don't know, and so you just have to believe. And which is where faith comes in. We just believe that there's a God and God started it off. That's just our faith. Right. You know, that's the belief. And uh, until, I guess until we evolved and no more, that's just what we believe. I'm not saying you can't question it, you can question it. Uh, but I think just for me, I think time is better served than. To try to live each day and try to do, try to love people and try to live that Christ conscious, right, or the Buddha conscious or whatever. Try to live that each day, and I think the more you do it each day, you'll, you, you're going to keep evolving to get to that point, okay? Rather than looking at that point and saying, I wish I was there, but you just live each day. I trying to live Christ's life. Right. Okay. Well, yeah, look, I'm gonna go to the next session. There's four of these sections. Okay. Yeah. And I've read through this and I'm sure you've read through it also, but when we come to some of these other sections, the last three arguments that he has, it's gonna come back to this first argument also. And it's gonna open up more discussion, but Right. Let's move forward for now on his second argument. Uh, that, uh, he doesn't believe in God. And this called argument from design. Uh, he says, we all know that argument from design means that everything the world is made just so, so that we can manage to live in the world. Like, the, the air that we breathe is 21% oxygen. Mm-hmm. And so it's perfect for our human bodies. It was designed, the air was designed to be 21% oxygen so that our bodies could live in this world. Mm-hmm. So that is just an one example of this argument from design and, uh, it can be, uh, trying. Um, but when you come to look into the argument from design, I think it's, uh, most astonishing thing that people. Can't believe that this world and all the things in it with all its defect, all of the things that are wrong, that this is the best, that the omnipotent and omniscient God has been able to produce in a million years. See, that's, that's pretty hard, Yeah. When we look at all the stuff that's going after a million years, if God is perfect and everything else, this is the best that he can do. And he says, I really can't believe it. And he has an example. So do you think if you were granted omnipotence and omniscience and millions of years in which to perfect the world, could you produce nothing better than the Ku Klux can? Mm-hmm. So I'm like, eh, okay. I understand your argument. What do you think? Yeah. Wow. Hmm. Okay. This is really gonna get deep here. Okay? Okay. This go, this goes into for this earth, okay. I believe in life on other planets too. Okay? Okay. Okay. And for earth. How did we, I know the Bible says that God created man, poof. Right, right. Poof. You know what I mean? Yep. Okay. But in reality, I shouldn't say in reality'cause honestly we don't know. But my belief is, we had to evolve from something small. We just evolved. Evolved. That's why it's taken millions of years. Okay. Evolve, evolve, evolve. And we evolve. Because of the design of the planet. I don't think the planet was designed around us. I think we evolved based on the design of the planet. Well, you're trying to get a shot again. I'm, let's get deeper. Okay. Okay, go ahead. Okay. Okay. Because once you evolve, I mean, even, if you think about animals and plants, they evolve. To, to get stronger, to live longer, right. I mean, that's just the way it is. And humans too. We now we're 6, 5, 6, 6, 200 years ago. What were they? 5 3, 5 4. I mean, it's just, we evolved based on the planet, right. On how it was designed. Okay. And yeah. And so, uh, that's why's taken millions and millions of years. Because we just slowly evolved. Okay. Slowly evolved. Slowly evolved, and uh, so I think we're gonna continue to evolve. Yep. Based on the plan. That was an episode in Star Trek, with Track is here. Yep. Yep. It was an episode in Star Trek where they went to this, uh, planet and Captain Kirk had to fight this dinosaur creature, whatever. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. But he had to put all these elements together to form a weapon. Right. This, this world has all these elements and you know, whatever it's already designed, it's just up to us to evolve, to use them to the best of our ability for our involvement. Okay. For And so yeah, we mentioned the Ku Klux Klan or whatever, but hopefully two to 300 years from now. We we're gonna be involved from that. That's, we're gonna look back on history. Like that is just nuts, Well, let me stop right there. Okay. What, what Beron was saying was if you have a God that's all powerful Yeah. And everything else. Yeah. And he's had a a million years to develop us. Yeah. Then why is something like the Ku Klux can right around. Okay. If we were truly trying to develop, if God was truly trying to develop something. And it's, he's all powerful and all good. Mm-hmm. And it's been a million years, is the best that he can do is to have the Ku Klux Klan around. I got an answer for that. Okay. Because he gives us free choice. We, it's our choice is specimens on this earth, to live the way we see fit. Whether it's good or bad or K, K, K, whatever. Right? He gives us a choice. He doesn't interfere in our choices. I shouldn't say he, God does not interfere in our choices. So it's a slow evolving, and God, we said the K, k, K, I don't think it was God's. Plan I should. It's, it's sticky because we say God is all knowing and all doing whatever. Right. But, but, uh, he gives us, God gives us free choice and it's up to us to evolve to get past some of those, uh, not so great things. Okay. Okay. Alright. That's why it takes millions of years. I just think it's, God gives us free choice. Okay. Well I'm gonna pose another question to you'cause I wanna throw another monkey wrench into this. All right. We talk about evolving, Mm-hmm. And I, I agree with you. The earth was not put here to evolve around us. The Earth was here and we've evolved, to the earth. Right? Okay. Um, so the Great SPX and the Great Pyramids mm-hmm. They've been around for thousands of years. Now, right now that we don't have the technology to be able to build the hins or the pyramid. Mm-hmm. We, at this point, and in man's life on earth, we don't have the technology to build the spinks, the pyramid, not the not, not as perfect as it is now. Right. Period. So when we talk about, evolving our, our, our, first cause or whatever mm-hmm. How would you explain that? Where does those things come from? Yeah. And I don't think people think about that, but where did those things come from? Right, right, right. I, I always try to study different things and there's all kind of different stories about, uh, civilizations. From different planets and they come here and, uh, they've given man this wisdom to do things and they've helped man, aliens, I guess is what we wanna call'em now. Uh, maybe, maybe aliens came who are, who are, in that book, uh, conversations with God, they call'em HEBs, highly evolved beans, right? And, uh, maybe the highly evolved beans from another solar system, planet, whatever. Traveled here and gave, either helped us, gave us, gave us the knowledge to do it and moved on, or, I don't know. But it, that is, that is, uh, a good question because those, uh, pyramids, man, that's amazing. And until. Recently, I'd say maybe 10 years ago. I didn't realize how big they were. Right. They are huge. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And the stones that were, that they were built off, I mean, each one of those stones weighs a few tons. Yes. Each stone weighs a few tons. I heard another interesting, um, theory and that theory was that, uh, this is the seventh coming of man. We are living in the seventh coming of man. In other words, there have been six. Different times where something like humans have been on earth, okay? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, uh, at some point in time we die out. I see. Okay. I get, so it's very possible if you want to believe this theory that, there was, uh, the sixth coming of man and, they had progressed technology wise where they could build the pyramids, but it's something happened for that. Uh, time where humans or whatever it was died out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've, I've heard something like that before too. Uh, I, I didn't hear something like the seventh, whatever, but I seventh coming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did hear about, I, I read about something like that too, because you have, Lost cities, like they always said, the lost city of Atlantis. Yes. Or the Amazon women were in charge and all that. Uh, there's gotta be some truth to that. Right. There has to be some truth to that. So, uh, that's interesting. And, uh, I kind of believe it. I mean, we, there had to be some kind of great technology for, for those pyramids to be made like that, so, right. And yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just a question. And, this again, gets back to Petran. He's saying, uh, that our, our, our thinking is so small. Yes. The idea of design, everything was designed for us to be here. But I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, this is the earth and we've evolved to be able to live here. Right? Yeah. So, uh, I would rather believe that more than that, uh. The earth was made and then, humans came because they were created by God. God, that sounds so sacrilegious, but, uh, but yeah, we're part of the earth. We, we've evolved, and I think science explains, the Bible, as on the, yeah. On the sixth state, uh, man was made. I mean, who's saying that a day is not, a few million years. Right. Exactly. You know? Exactly. So, yeah. And all we're doing is, uh, we're not trying to tell anybody what, what to believe. Just kind of think about it, just open up your mind a little bit and Right. Just ponder these things. You know, we don't want people to walk blindly. Right. Uh, we all, we're trying to, what we're trying to do is help people evolve as well as we're trying to evolve ourselves. Right. And that's what we're doing. Yeah. We want people to think and not just follow something blindly. Yes. Okay. Look, we, I knew that we were gonna get through all this. We have about, uh, eight minutes left here. Uh, okay. What I, I think we're gonna do, we're gonna continue this, uh, this discussion in our next, uh, podcast. Mm-hmm. But let's go ahead and jump to, our favorite part of the day. Okay. Uh, we got a story and I believe you had the story. You want to go ahead and, and do that. Sure will. Okay, man. What a great session, Gary. Yeah. Okay. Our story today comes from Lauren in Illinois. Lauren writes, it was a crisp, autumn evening when my world shattered. I remember the phone call vividly, the kind that freezes time and leaves you gasping for air. The officer's voice was calm, almost detached as he explained to my parents. He explained that my parents had been in a car accident. A drunk driver had run a red light slamming into their car with devastating force. They didn't make it sad. Yeah, I didn't cry at first. I couldn't process the words. Instead, I sat there staring at the wall as if the sheer act of disbelief could undo reality. The days that follows were a blur of condolences, paperwork, and funeral arrangements. People kept telling me how strong I was, how well I was handling it, but they didn't see the nights when I curled up in bed crying until my chest ate. They didn't hear the silent screams. That echoed in my mind asking why? Why them? Why them? Why this? I remember walking into the house after the accident. The smell of my mom's lavender candles still lingered in the air, and my dad's favorite coffee mugs sat on the counter half full. It was as if they had just stepped out for a moment and would come back at any time, but they wouldn't. The house was a museum of memories. The drunk driver survived. This was the hardest pill to swallow. Wow. Yeah. He walked away with minor injuries while my parents paid the ultimate price for his recklessness. I wanted to hate him to curse his name and wish him the worst, but hate is heavy and I was already carrying too much. Grief is a grief is strange. It doesn't follow a linear path. Linear path. It twists and turns catching you off guard when you least expect it. Some days I'd feel almost normal, like I could breathe again. Out of nowhere, a song, a smell, or a fleeting thought would bring it all crashing back. I've learned that healing isn't about forgetting, it's about finding a way to live with the pain. My parents wouldn't want me to be consumed by anger or sadness. They'd want me to honor their memory by living a life they'd be proud of. So I try. I volunteer at organizations that raise awareness about drunk driving. I shared their story, hoping it might prevent someone else from experiencing this kinda loss. And on the hardest days, I remind myself that their love is still with me guiding me even in their absence. Yeah. What a great story. Yeah, that's a great story. You are right. I, I went through something like this when I lost my fiance a long time ago. It's Oh yeah. It's hard. It's hard, man. Wow. Yeah. Thank you Lauren, for sending your story. Uh, we hope that you have found some peace and purpose in your life, Lauren. We believe that your life, that your live life experiences, uh, somebody's playbook for dealing with the storms in their lives, your story will help someone to find the strength to deal with the storms in their lives. Okay? Yeah. So this will close our podcast for today. Thank you for joining us today on Cirque De Soul. We hope that it sparked some new thoughts about the purpose of life. Hope it sparked some stuff. We had a great discussion today. Yeah, we did. Yeah. If you would like to send us some questions for discussion, please do. Or if you would like to send your story, please email those to CI soul444@gmail.com. At C-I-R-Q-U-E-D-U-S-O-U l444@gmail.com. And if you found value in today's episode, please share it with someone who might benefit from it. Don't forget the like and subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. And as always, your spiritual journey is uniquely yours. It is yours, and you're never alone Like Lauren, you know there's always others to help you through the storms in your life. So take care of yourself. Take care of the world around you. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to the world around you, and until the next time, have a great day in paradise. And I need it to happen. Happen right away. But you sit so. So as I wait on for your, I'll station myself and drop my anger. My, I'm gonna my, until you make way going, drop my anger, my, and rest now. In the end, I'll win. Drop my anger. My anger. I gonna.