Is There A God? The non-believers final three arguments.

Welcome back to another episode with the "Bald Brothers". 

In this episode, we wrap up our discussion of the question "Is there a God?" This episode discusses the belief that there is not a God through three arguments. These arguments are the argument from evil, the argument from non-belief and the argument from science. 

These three arguments are all based upon the idea that in the absence of some concrete evidence, then there is no proof that there is a God. 

Join us as we delve into the three arguments for the belief that there is not a God.

Please send your questions and comments to cirquedusoul444@gmail.com.

Transcript

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Yeah, that's mind, body, soul. We connected with the globe. Yeah, that's mind, body, soul took some discipline, repetition and some self-control. We connected with the globe. Yeah. That's mind, body, soul. Whoa. Yeah. That's mind, body, soul. Hey. Yeah. That's Mind, body, soul took some discipline, repetition, and some self control. Welcome to Cirque to Soul, the only uncut. Unedited podcast that is dedicated to helping you to find spiritual peace in your life. Kim, we're wrapping up on this idea of is there a God from the agnostic and from the atheist's perspective? Yep. Hello everybody. Hope everybody had a great week. Uh, like you said last week, we talked about the belief in God and we focused on what does it mean to be a atheist. Over the past few weeks, we have discussed the definition of an agnostic and definition of an atheist. So for a quick review, the definition of atheism is not an affirmative belief that there is no God nor does it answer any other question about what a person believes. It is simply a rejection of the assertion that there are guides. Now, the definition of agnostic is that nothing is known. Or it can be known of the existence of God or of anything beyond material phenomena. Atheism and agnosticism are distinct views regarding the existence of a God or Gods, but they are not mutually exclusive. Atheism is the disbelief in or denial of the existence of a God or Gods. While agnosticism is the view that the existence of a God or Gods is not knowable. A person can be both an atheist and an agnostic, meaning they don't believe in any God or gods and believe that it's impossible to know definitively if one exists. Okay, great. That's, that's a, a great, uh, synopsis of what we've talked about over the past few weeks. And you know what, I think that we really covered the arguments from, I call it the non-believer standpoint, the agnostic and the atheist. There are a few more points that non-believers make that I think we need to go over today. And then after today we'll talk about differences in religious beliefs. Okay, so continuing on from what we've already talked about, there are three other arguments that I think that we probably haven't covered, and we'll go through those now. The first argument is the argument from evil. This argument states that the existence of evil and suffering in human existence is compatible, incompatible with the belief in a good and loving God. So if God is a supreme being, then he should be able to prevent evil from happening, things like sickness and crime. So what do you think? Yeah, that's a heck of an argument. Um,, I've often thought about that myself. Um. Come on. It's like, God, he could really take care of this if you really wanted to. Yeah. But, I mean, it's probably beyond our comprehension, our understanding, I guess we have different views on, why this is allowed to happen. And I just think that, uh, God gives us all free will and there's a verse in the Bible that says, take care of your temple. Because if you don't take care of your temple, God will destroy your temple. And I'm just thinking that, if you don't take care of your body, then the natural thing is, is for you to have sickness or diseases or whatever, right? So I think God just gives us choices and some things are just, I mean, like to be in a car wreck and it's not your fault. I don't know. I, I, I don't know. I, it's just we didn't do that on purpose and. That I just can't answer that. I have no idea. Well, let me relay something to you. Mm-hmm. Uh, a few years ago I went to a, um, it was a no talk spiritual retreat. Mm-hmm. No talk. So for a whole week we didn't talk, but on the last day we were, having a class with this master yogi and I, I asked the question if God is all love. Then why do bad things happen? Mm-hmm. And nobody, he said, he said, what makes you think that God is all love? He said, God is everything in his mind. Uh, our religion tells us that God is all love, but in the reality, God is everything. So everything that bad, that's bad, that happens, what we call bad is still part of God. Wow. That's, wow. You know what, having said that, the Book of Job job was a good guy. Yes. He followed God, but God allowed Satan to punish job, basically. I mean, kill his kids. I mean, made him sick. Right. So what this yogi said, I, it just hit me. I'm like, wow. He, he's right. Because God is in charge of everything. Everything. Right. So, and poor job experienced it. Right. But in the Bible job was rewarded also. He just went this. Exactly. Yeah. Now lemme tell you something else that this yogi master said to me. Mm-hmm. He said, our understanding of what goes on in the world is so small. He said, as an example, take a family that's uh, uh, in Europe and they are taking a skiing vacation, and they're skiing. Then there is a, a, a slot, where, uh, all the snow and everything fell down and it killed the family. Mm-hmm. He said, our human understanding would be that, oh, it's such a bad thing and it's a bad thing that happened to them. Mm-hmm. And he said, suppose it was like this, suppose 500 years ago, a tree fell down and was frozen and it stopped up a bunch of snow, and the snow piled up and piled up and piled up back behind it. And so here we are 500, 600 years later and we're having global warming. And so that tree, that was the beginning of holding all this snow back. Mm-hmm. It snapped. Yeah. And then all the snow falls down. Right. Our understanding is, well they were, it was unfortunate, bad things happened, but in the reality of the situation. 500, 600 years ago this event happened that held that snow back and global warming, or whatever you want to call it, caused it to, to that, that tree, to unthaw and all the snow fell down. Right, right, right. That's, that's a, that's pretty good. Uh, you remember that movie, uh, was Benjamin Button or something like that with, um, oh God, I forgot the guy's, the actor's name. He was, he was living backwards. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And yeah. And, uh, when he, he met his, his girlfriend when she had an accident. Yep. And she got ran over or something like that. But anyway, they went over the progression of time. If she had just left one minute one minute earlier, then this would've happened, then this would've happened, then this would've happened. Right. This would've happened. It's just things, the progression of time things happen, which we don't, we're not aware of. Right. And things happen, but only thing we see is the end result, And we're like, oh, that's just not right. You know? Yeah. Not, not send the whole progression of life. Right. So, yeah, so we've talked about progression now and things that happen, but the reality of the situation, and I, this is what I believe, uh, and I said it a little earlier, is that everything that happens is under God's purview. In other words, is God's will. Uh, and even the evil things that happen, it's part of God's will. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's hard to argue that because, God is in control, right? God is in control. I mean, we can't, we don't have the power to stop something. If it's progressing in life or whatever, we just don't have that power. That's a God thing. So I, I can't argue with that. Right. Well, you know what, this, this is gonna tie into what we're gonna talk about next week. Uh, we talked about agnostics and we talk about atheist. The other two things that we haven't talked about is the deist, and that's someone who believes in a God or a supreme being who created the universe, but he doesn't intervene in its affairs. He doesn't. Doesn't do anything. Mm-hmm. And of course, the pantheist who believes that, uh, God created the universe, but he plays an active role in our lives. Mm. We talk about these things that are happening. I mean, it's either a, a Ds or or, or a Pantheist. Yeah. But wow. Uh, yeah. But we we're asking the questions. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, and I don't know the answer to those questions to be honest with you, Right. It's just something to, to think about, I guess, Okay. E either that, or you just go along and you just go with the floor of life, right? Yeah, yeah. But then this is what we're getting back to it. That's what the atheist thinks. That's what the, the agnostics think. It's like, well, you can't prove it. You know? You don't know, and these things happen. So what's to say? There's a God. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get it. I get it. Uh, just, when you grow up in the church and they teach you, God is in control and that's what you grew up believing. I guess, and it's hard to get away from that. I'm not saying you can't, and not even saying should. Right. Uh, but, you kind of evolve a little bit more and start questioning things a little bit, so. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I, I get what they're saying. I just, I guess for me personally, I just, since growing up in the church or whatever, I just can't get over the fact that I think God is in control of everything. Right. And again, we're not trying to down anybody's beliefs. Correct. We're just having a discussion, right. Uh, so that we can open our, our mind to thinking more than what we've been taught. Right? And, helping people to find, a path, their path to, uh, a meaningful life. Right. And that's why we, we, uh, welcome anybody that has any, comment or whatever, because we might be learning something from you guys. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, you have your own views of this, something we not have considered. So Yeah. And we can have a conversation without arguing, fussing, or fighting. Let's, let's, let's talk, right? Yes, definitely. Okay. Definitely. Well, that was the first argument. Let's go into this second argument. Uh, the second argument is the argument from non-belief, and I'm just gonna read this. Mm-hmm. This argument states that there are many people that do not, or have not heard of Christianity or any other religion. Now they have not been exposed to any teaching or religious dogma. If God is real and wants everyone to know about him, then he would make himself. More known throughout the world. Hmm. Well, uh, that's a good one too. You, you remember that movie? Oh God, yes. You, you full of movies. I am George Burns. Yeah. God, pick people, to, to go out and ready, that people know that God is alive or whatever. Right. And I don't know why I thought about that, but I did. And, uh, so. I don't know. Maybe it's an ongoing, we always want proof. We want proof of God give us, come on God, give us proof. Right? Give us proof, but I think that God is just, uh, so much higher than, I mean, well, we know that so much higher than we are, that, he wants everybody just to live their life freely. And if you, if you believe in God, you do. If you don't, you don't. But. He gives us that free will, that free choice. So right. Uh, if, if it someday everybody gets to know who God is, that's great. But I don't think God's gonna force God on anybody. Okay. Yeah. Let me throw a monkey rich in here. And I keep saying every week somebody's gonna shoot us, but just looking at this statement, uh, if God is real and wants everyone to know about him, then he would make himself more known throughout the world. So here's a question. There are people that live in remote parts of the world. Mm-hmm. Know nothing about religion and there are others that, don't partake in religion. In our particular religion or what we were raised in, uh, the Christian religion. Mm-hmm. We believe are, I will say, the religion beliefs that you must know Jesus to get into heaven. Right. These people that have no concept of religion or anything else. So are they destined to go to hell or whatever? Right, right, right. Um, I know people probably believe that uhhuh me personally, I don't believe that because it's like we talked about, I think at the very, our very first podcast, I think the goal is to get to the top of the mountain. Yep. But there's different paths to get to the top of the mountain and so. Um, and Lord, we can really get deep here. You're right. I'm gonna have somebody shooting at me because, uh, heaven. Whew. Uh, I think heaven is, we can experience heaven here on earth. I believe that. And I think heaven is just been oneness with God. And so, and even Jesus says, unless you become as little child, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. So even Christians, I know people don't look at it like that, but becoming like a little child means there's no hate in your heart. You have absolute faith. You're pure and honest, and just like a little child, you just see love everywhere. So any religion, I think if they become like that, they can experience heaven. What you're talking about is Buddhism. That, I mean, that is the definition of, of, of what Buddhism is in trying to become enlightened. Yeah. Which is, uh, if you are a Christian, I mean, people don't, uh, at least in the western world here, we don't talk about that. No, we don't talk about that. No, we don't. About that. No, we don't, we only thing we talk about is there's a heaven up there. Right? And, and God is gonna decide who, who gets in and who doesn't get in. Uh, that's just where we grew up. Right? Um, so if you are, if, if you are your religion, if you're a Christian and you feel like the only way to get to heaven is you have to be a Christian through Jesus, uh, I understand.'cause that's what we grew up on too. However. I don't believe that anymore. Right? I just believe that, uh, you can experience heaven if you, um, there's a, the beatitudes that blessed out the pure in heart for they shall see God to who, what's pure in heart, a baby, a child, that's when you see God and experience heaven. So I think anybody can do that. I don't care what religion you are in. Uh, any anybody can do it if they try. If they try because they take, you are right and you know you're right. And when Jesus says, unless you're born again, yes. By water and by spirit, yes. The spirit is, you have to connect to that God spirit. Right. To become born again. I know when you know we're in church and. We always say we're born again Christians and we get baptized. Well, I think, uh, and that's great. That's great. That's, that's absolutely great. But they're born again, I think is different levels. Mm-hmm. And they're born again. If you get to that top level of pure, pure spirit, pure God, pure Christ, then I think that's when you really experience the kingdom of God. Okay. You know what? Uh, later,, episodes we're gonna get into this and I think a lot of people don't know. There's tales that, uh, Jesus in the lost years mm-hmm. That he traveled, to the Orient and he studied under Buddha. Yes. I already studied Buddhism because Buddha preceded Christ by almost 500 years. Yeah, right. So I think that it's interesting and, we need to bring that out so people understand that maybe some of the teachings of Christ came from Buddha. There's the, there's something on Facebook. I should Facebook, if you look it up, uh, not Facebook, but you can go on the internet. They have, uh, similar sayings. Uh, between Buddha and Jesus that basically almost the same thing, right? They mean the same thing, So, yeah. Uh, there's a lot of similarities there. Right? Right. And I mean, I, I just think it's interesting, very interesting that argument from non-belief, uh, because of, things that happen, or that, if God wanted us to, to worship him, then he should make himself known. Yeah. And the reality is I think he, he, she does make himself herself known to us. We just are, are getting farther and farther away from trying to understand what that means. And a lot of that too is like living consciously. Mm-hmm. Uh,'cause there's God everywhere if you just pay attention, if you just pay attention. But weed. Get caught up in life and, yeah. So we don't pay attention. The, in the movie that's, I'm bringing up a movie, getting the, the movie color purple. Yeah. When they said they think sometimes God gets, God gets pissed if you walk by a purple. What it was, what kind of flower it was. Right. Whatever it was. Yeah. A lot. And you don't notice it. Right. And you don't notice it, Yeah. So, so we kind of, God is there, we just don't attention to it. And so, uh, when they said be in the world, but not of the world. Boom. There you go. You're getting back to Buddhism again. You are, I mean, we, we've been taught in the Christian religion, but I think your experiences, my experiences have led us to understand that, there is, we're responsible also, we have to find peace within ourselves and Right. Display love, so Right. And, and going back if you really want to experience God and see God and be a part of God, it took Budha six years. Yes. It took him six, it was it five or six years to meditate and really get to that level. Right. It took him six years. And I look at the Bible and even you talk about when Jesus went into the. Desert for 40 days, 40 nights. Moses did the same thing up on the mountain, right? What do you think they were doing? Right? Meditate and try to get that relationship with God, right? So yeah, we, we're responsible too, right? We are. We are. Yeah. Okay. Let's go over this third argument, okay? Mm-hmm. Okay. And this is the third and final argument. It's the argument from science. This argument, there is no belief in the idea of supernatural beings or God. Instead, it states that science has disproved many of the claims made by religion as an example. We now know that the earth is round and not flat as Christians once believed. So I think this argument is saying as we learn more and more and more, all the things that Christians believe. Are gonna be shown to be not true. Oh, science are tricky. Science. Yes. You know what? Well, here's a even better question. Can science and religion coexist? Can, can they, I mean, can science prove religion? Right. Right. Okay. You know what? I have an answer. Lemme go. Let me, let me tell you this. Okay. Now I know that we think that we live in a very technology driven time. We're living in a time when we've seen some great technological, technological advances, but I still have to believe that we're just scratching the surface. We're just scratching the surface As far as technology, advances are concerned. Mm-hmm. I believe we still have the potential to travel and to live on other planets. Uh, we still have the potential to solve human diseases. I think we have the potential for time travel. We have, we've thought about these things, but we haven't mastered those yet. So if we still have the potential to conquer these things, then it only makes sense to me that at some point in time we still have the potential to scientifically prove the existence of God. Mm-hmm. Now, I believe that in the future. We will develop the technology to prove that there's a God, or maybe we become more in tune with our inner feelings, our inner being, and we discover that higher self. So in the absence of technology and our inability to connect with the higher self, then I think we're still falling back on what we call faith. Hmm. Okay. So, uh, do you believe that, uh, we'll progress to that point? That, uh, technology wise, we can prove the existence of God? And do you also believe that as humans we will learn to tap into our inner being? We learn to become enlightened and learn to contact, uh, and live with God while on Earth, or a Mercury or Jupiter or some other right planet look. What I do believe is that at some point in time that science will be able to prove the existence of God, or, a higher being. We can call it God, we can call it Alan. I don't know. Um. Mm-hmm. Now, I hate to be a negative person, but I don't know that every human being will ever get to the point of being enlightened. And I, I'm using the word enlightened again. Mm-hmm. Uh, in our world, I mean, now. There's too many temptations for people to focus on finding God. There has to be some kind of a severe or existential threat to humankind and some sign for people to believe that, the right path is to focus on being enlightened. Mm-hmm. Uh, look at the divisions in our societies today. How can something that's right for so many people be wrong for another group of people? Some people leaving, uh, slavery, some don't. How, how do we have those opposites? The same can also be said for, a lack of food. Some say that, we have to feed those without, or others say that it's up to each individual to fend for themselves. There's so many varying thoughts and who's to say what's right and who's to say what's wrong. Yeah, that is true. You know what, uh, let me read a few Bible verses. Um, I think it makes a strong case for the existence of God. Okay? The first is from the Book of Timothy, the verses one Timothy three 16. And it says, God is a mystery. God is a mystery. Okay? Yeah. So I think that, uh, this is saying that the existence, the beginning of God is beyond our understanding. This was written hundreds of years ago, by the way. Right, right. Also in Isaiah 44, 6, it reads, I am the first and I am the last. Apart from me, there is no God. And these two Bible verses are very powerful. These two Bible verses make a strong case for having faith. I think. I think that it tells us that our understanding of God is like a kindergartner. I think we said that earlier too. Yep. We did. Uh, we don't have the capacity to understand. It's kinda like being a child. Wow. We just said something about being a child. Yep. Right. As a child, you know you have faith and you believe that your parents are gonna do the right thing for you. Yep. All right. As I said before, how frustrating it must have been for Jesus when Jesus was trying to explain God to us. You said that on the last couple of, uh, episodes. Yeah. That, uh, it must have been frustrating for Jesus and, uh, some of the other prophets, uh, to talk about something that we didn't have the capacity to learn. Right. So, but this is what I believe. I believe that, faith is a major part, major part of our Western religion, and it's a major part of my religion personally. Now that faith defines that there is a God and it also defines what God is. And as we draw upon that faith, we use the Bible as a foundation. Now, I've said it before in my mind, the Bible does contradict itself and that contradiction can lead to some doubt. I mean, it has led to doubt for me, but in the, in the whole scheme of things, I think the Bible is a guide for us. Mm-hmm. Uh, so, personally, I've had too many examples or miracles in my life to not believe in God. So I choose to have this faith and, and believe in God. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm kind of like you, like you, I consider myself to be a logical person. With the spiritual base. When I ask these questions, I don't wanna question anybody else's faith. We don't wanna do that. You're own your own spiritual journey, right? And like, like you, Gary and me, I believe that each individual has to find their own way. They're on their own journey. I, I agree. I agree. And you know what, we're, we're running outta time here. We have just a couple of minutes, and I hate cutting this off so short, but, this has been a good, a really good episode. We, uh, talked about some of the arguments against the existence of God, um, outside of that, of the agnostics and atheist. Uh, next week we're gonna talk about pantheism and what it means. I said that a little earlier and we'll compare and contrast that with agnostics and atheist and hopefully provide some insights and some thoughts for our listening audience to consider when they're, trying to create their purposeful life. Excellent. Excellent. Can't wait. Uh, this was a great session, Gary. It really was. Yeah, it was. It got us thinking too. So I'm looking forward to next week, but now we're right outta time. It's time for our favorite part of the podcast. Alright. We read a story from one of our listeners telling us about a traumatic time in our lives and how their faith helped them to navigate this storm. So today our story comes from Rachel. Rachel writes. I never imagined a life without James. He wasn't just my brother. He was my best friend, the one who stood beside me through every hardship, the one who could make me laugh even on my worst days. But a addiction changed him. It turned him into someone I couldn't recognize. I watched helplessly as James Sparrow first with harmless experimentation. Then with dependency, then with desperation. I begged, pleaded prayed, but addiction was unforgiven and it eventually took his life. The day James died, my whole world collapsed. Grief became my shadow. The weight of loss press so heavily on me that I struggled to breathe. Nights were the worst silent hours filled with sobs and regrets with memories of James' smile and the pain of knowing that I would never see it, see it again. So for weeks, I didn't leave my apartment friends called. I ignored him. I stopped eating, stopped speaking, stopped believing there was anything left in this world for me. Until one evening, a familiar voice whispered in my heart. I'm still here, Ray. It wasn't James. It wasn't my own mind. It was something deeper, something greater, something that had been waiting for me in my sorrow. I reached for the Bible that had been gathered in dust on my bookshelf and flipped through it until I found Psalm 34 18. The Lord is close to the broken hearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. I held the book to my chest as if holding on onto it would bring my brother back. It didn't, but it did bring something else. Comfort, strength, and hope. Faith didn't erase my grief, but it carried me through it. It whispered to me in the lonely hours, reminded me that even though James was gone, I wasn't alone. It gave me the courage to rise, to breathe, to step outside into the world again. I joined a support group in my church with others who had lost loved ones to addiction, and I heard their stories. I spoke about James, about his kindness, about his struggle, about how I had moved him fiercely and had lost him just as fiercely how I loved him fiercely, sorry. And instead of drowning in sorrow, I found myself lifted by the compassion of others who understood little by little faith stitched together the pieces of my shattered heart. It didn't erase the pain, but it transformed it. I decided to honor James by advocating for those battling addictions, sharing his story, so others might find hope. Before it's too late, I'll always miss him. The ache will never fade, will never fully fade. But in the depths of my heart, I have found love, faith, and I promised it. One day I will see my brother again. Wow. Great story. That's a great story. Yeah, great story. Yeah. That, that addiction is nothing to be played with. No, it's not. So, so thank you Rachel, for sending your story. You know, we hope that you have found some peace and purpose in your life. We believe that your lived life experiences someone's playbook for dealing with the storms in their lives. Your story will help someone to find the strength to deal with the storms in their lives. Okay, so this will close our podcast for today. Thank everybody for joining us today on Cirque De Soul. We hope that it sparks some new thoughts about the purpose of life, and if you would like to send us some questions for discussion or if you would like to send your story, please email these to CDU soul444@gmail.com, C-I-R-Q-U-E-D-U-S-O-U l444@gmail.com. If you found value in today's episode, please share it with somebody who might benefit from it. Don't forget to lack and subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. And as always, always remember your spiritual journey is uniquely yours. You are never alone like Rachel, there's always others to help you through the storms in your life. So I say take care of yourself, be kind to yourself and be kind to the world around you. And until the next time, have a great day in paradise. And trying his best to beat me down to the ground. I'm praying for things to change Lord, and I need it to happen to happen right away. But you sit so quiet. So as I myself and drop my, drop my.